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Post by Fitzpatrick Racing on Dec 28, 2014 17:08:05 GMT -6
Our rules has changed for this season from minimum 12 inch coil springs to any height coil spring in our metric car. We are now aloud front adjustable spring spacers as well. We already have rear load bolts. Car weighs 3150 lbs on 8 inch Hoosier race tires and we race 1/3 mile clay oval. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Dec 28, 2014 20:21:25 GMT -6
Never have been a fan of short springs! The front by application with spring buckets or style of adjusters are limited! As for the rear 14" has served us well with raised towers! Taller can effect roll factors in strange ways, not so much on the left rear but the load is less up high on the right forcing a difference in the split used and pounds applied with more limited motion! This too varies with weight placement and spring combos leaving you back to test and tune! Having the correct pounds is more important than height if needing more travel to get transfer or steer out of your preloads! You may get more travel and hold pounds if preloaded but if transfer is needed taller seldom helps! What gain are you looking for by changing? Where are you now? Set-ups will vary in needs!!! If looking to roll up more off the left rear but hold pounds and get more drive angle and steer I would re- read most of my post on the part the right rear plays! Your front split has more control on holding left rear pounds during the roll and should allow the right rear to be the weaker spring as to not roll up off the left rear and loose traction but roll down on the right and gain even more! Having it leaned left should give more right steer and drive angle to get even more traction and steer by thrust of the right drive coming off the corner! I have ran rear springs both ways to win but got off straighter with less steer on the left!
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Post by Fitzpatrick Racing on Dec 29, 2014 9:20:50 GMT -6
Now I run 13 inch springs all around, RF 1100 LF 900, RR 200, Lr 225. No sway bar. Just wondering if a soft set up with a big sway bar in the front would be like, and I can only get those light spring weights with the 9.5 inch springs with the adjustable spring buckets, the car isn't to bad now, just looking for more.
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Dec 29, 2014 10:38:30 GMT -6
More of what is what I'm asking! Having ft. jack bolts is a plus! The spring centering tabs have to be cut out on top to give more room for the bucket! My left bucket is chopped to the max! In some cases only as a shim! Be sure to time springs at the bottom! Springs sounds ok as to any problem, glad to help weed it out!!! Shocks, travel now on each? Percentages?, Weight placement? Even a spoiler can tighten too much! A sway bar is for stability side to side and not very useful on dirt unless used as a added jack bolt on one side! Getting the preloads set with ride heights and shocks to let it transfer easily is one thing, getting the caster correct to give driver control is next! I know we have covered some things before but we may have missed a point or two in why if not there yet! Its amazing how much faster and free some cars are with out a spoiler! I prefer to tote my rear percent with less drag! Gravity does the rest, you just have to watch out for the full moon nights with 1/6 less!!!20- 40 lbs. more left rear jacked in covers it! A few more stats and desires will get you there!
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Dec 29, 2014 11:29:09 GMT -6
If jacking all your left rear in with no lead on the lower back corner or any up above the frame or over the rear it can be upsetting to preloads and nosing ability or just throwing it too fast or too far in the roll! This would lead to corrective measures that upsets the smooth natural flow of being loose and free while holding pounds where needed! It's not the movement I go for but the smooth transfer of pounds to stabilize a chassis! Steer happens in many ways and little role is actually needed when keeping your car straight! Do you realize roll out diminishes when rolled by tire give and gain! It then improves coming off! Rear air is very important to steer factors in roll out! 35 years has given me plenty of time to pan things out but most get muddled in my post as I try to move from one thing to another as each does in the process! I forget-- stock rears or 3 link? Just looking at the picture it looks too level side to side and too low in the rear by the roof air! You maybe toting a lot more air pounds than you think! All the little things adds up to faster once noticed and corrected!
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Dec 29, 2014 11:59:42 GMT -6
You need it leaned left one inch at the side frame rails in the front at wide point and 1/2- 3/4" at the rear side frame rail ! This sets steering angles and rear stock bars and then ride heights by bolt to bolt side to side from the floor up on each bar! Ft tie rods and A arms should be where they level out when rolled! Running down to the rt. wheel and up 1/2 as much above level to the left! I like things to even or level out when rolled to allow caster to switch it if needed once to a balance it has control or rather you do!!!
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Post by Fitzpatrick Racing on Dec 29, 2014 18:45:46 GMT -6
Here is a clip of the car going threw corner 1 and 2 I was getting decent weight transfer I would like the RR corner of the car to drop just a hair or so to get me some more bite. Attachments:
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Post by Fitzpatrick Racing on Dec 29, 2014 18:47:45 GMT -6
Going into corner 1. Attachments:
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Post by Fitzpatrick Racing on Dec 29, 2014 18:49:04 GMT -6
Coming out of 2 Attachments:
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Dec 29, 2014 20:43:26 GMT -6
Its the same old story, The car is rolling off the left rear and the front has little tension to plant the right rear! It should be level when rolled so you have to start off leaned left! If you have weight up high this is what you get! I under stand what you want is traction and side bite! If the right holds the left comes up and if it doesn't you get the excessive roll and loose lt. front tension on the spring! What is your cross and left side? It looks loose to me and running left drive! Is the rears stock links? When I say nose I mean to level out! It looks as if you need to tighten the left side ft. and rear! Tell me about weight placement and shocks! All the movement in the world does no good if the springs don't transfer the pounds! One set has to hold the other through the cross at preloads to get quick transfer with out all the roll! If you want weight on the right rear you will have to tighten the jack bolt and put the lead on the left rear to hold it down! Then tighten the right front or loosen the left by steering needs to be correct! I just got a new message of another that was well pleased with changes and finished 5th first night out after changes! He said it felt like a whole new car and was well pleased! This is the same set-up as limited chassis with stronger springs! You will find plenty of post to go by!
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Post by Fitzpatrick Racing on Dec 30, 2014 19:45:27 GMT -6
I had my weight high and on the left rear behind the axle. I was running afco shocks, heavy LF extra heavy RF I don't have my book here with the #'s. I also had Pro shocks on the rear with and easy up on LR 50/50 RR. Springs where 1100 RF 900 LF 225 LR 200 RR and it has the metric 4 link. If I remember my % were 55% Left 50.5 Rear with 49.5 cross. 1/4 inch toe out on the front. We have to run the a arm mounts in stock location so my LF was maxed out and was able to get camber +1 and RF was -6 I forget the caster split but the car would turn left if you let go of the steering wheel while driving.
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Dec 30, 2014 21:31:39 GMT -6
No reason for rt. ft. to nose so hard but if not adjustable the lack of cross is not holding the car up or holding left rear down! The springs and locations if correct should not allow this to happen! Rear should be much higher as 58+ and if 55 left the left front spring must be holding all the weight! It does not pan out unless rt. front is weaker or lt. ft. is too tall or out of time! Its as if your ft. springs are swapped by your numbers! Longer bolts and large nuts for shims to get more caster as you move the upper ball joints to the rear! You will have to bevel nuts as not to bind with more angle on the shaft! Test ft. springs or best to replace as you add adjusters! Start with 52-53 on cross and left once corrected! I will look for my other post to help!
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Dec 30, 2014 21:31:52 GMT -6
No reason for rt. ft. to nose so hard but if not adjustable the lack of cross is not holding the car up or holding left rear down! The springs and locations if correct should not allow this to happen! Rear should be much higher as 58+ and if 55 left the left front spring must be holding all the weight! It does not pan out unless rt. front is weaker or lt. ft. is too tall or out of time! Its as if your ft. springs are swapped by your numbers! Longer bolts and large nuts for shims to get more caster as you move the upper ball joints to the rear! You will have to bevel nuts as not to bind with more angle on the shaft! Test ft. springs or best to replace as you add adjusters! Start with 52-53 on cross and left once corrected! I will look for my other post to help!
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Dec 30, 2014 22:23:10 GMT -6
Run a search on this phrase-- stock won for us! It has most details as to setup!
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Post by Fitzpatrick Racing on Dec 31, 2014 8:48:12 GMT -6
I have to correct something I forgot that when these pics where taken I was running a 950 RF and a 850 LF spring, since then I have changed to 1100 RF and a 900 LF but we only got one race to try it at the end of the season it was decent in the qualifier but I had an accident early in the feature so I wasn't able to really test it.
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