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Post by turnleftdaddy51 on Feb 8, 2015 21:41:11 GMT -6
I ran hot june, july and august in southern New Mexico, hot being 230 a few times at 240 (how accurate is gauge?) My radiator is a single pass looking to buy a double pass then saw the triple for only $10 more. Would you guys buy the double or the triple. Most tracks say don't run coolant this one doesn't spec. should I run water wetter coolant fabric softener. I looked at previous posts everything else Im doing seems right on. What do you think?
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Feb 9, 2015 0:18:40 GMT -6
You may need to consider a few other factors in jetting or unlocking your timing if locked, oil restrictors or valley pan shield to keep expansion of fuels from restricting flow and causing a lean condition to arise by a few degrees in weather temp changes! A double worked best with us but with pumps and RPMs ratios at the pumps and even running belts captured for less slippage in some cases like when using one v-type belt with combinations with power steering! Fan pitch and use a five blade fan instead of 4 with square, bent ends to get more air bite! A little auto-trany fluid in the fuel helps a bit as a friction fighter and top lube in one! It also effects the octane as to a better control of timing burn by taking a bit of stress off of things! Some times the cam timing can be off by one or even 2 degrees and not effect the RPMs but advancing helps with more vacuum to vaporize fuels better and cause the fuel E-vap process to refrigerate and cool the pistons to relieve the heat that is being transferred to the heads or the reversion that may be the problem by closing the exhaust valves sooner! Cooling at the radiator is similar to a refrigerating process liken to a A/C unit with restriction at the thermostat washer to place the pressure of the flow and the suction side of the water pump correctly to improve system function to get a better heat exchange! The cooler it runs on gas the more compression it builds in the blast by expanding on demand and not before creating lean by restricted flow! Get rid of the power-valve in your carb and jet it up enough to run cooler by dumping more in when lifting the throttle to cool it down! It can be lean when lifting and shutting off the flow! I like to get our .066-.080 to run as cool as 150 degrees! Some times the pressure of cap you run per system is all you need to make all related factors work together, they are a team effort and have to match up as to do the job well! Fan shroud clearances or noses with out proper deflection under the car can starve it for air flow as well! If not loosing coolant the gauge could be at fault but if running coolant in stead of distilled water the PH can be off! Some products have acidic properties and will oxidize the rad. in side if drained where air gets to it, do not ever leave it open and dry or you will need a new one again to ever be correct again! Think of it in terms of energy flow and resistance a molecular level! If the air flow at the rad. does not change to a vacuum on the fan side it may not cool as well! You may want aluminum mesh or stainless to draw the heat out of the air before it hits the rad. to create a diode effect of exchange simply by shape alone! Check out the new plate designs in the battery grid designs to better understand energy transfer! Fin count does come into play at this point! Take another look at it with a different approach of making less heat to start with and then the horses gained in the cost of an educated fix!!! Do a bit more research!!! Its worth a bit more sometimes when all else fails! What size or stroke are you running your ign. timing against and type of fuel as to compression in pounds? I need more clues to Help if I can!
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Post by turnleftdaddy51 on Feb 9, 2015 22:10:07 GMT -6
Thank YOU FOR ALL THAT INSIGHT I EVEN UNDERSTOOD SOME OF IT. bUT RIGHT NOW I NEED A NEW RADIATOR MY SINGLE PASS IS TIRED AND NEEDS TO BE RETIRED TO THE 15 LAP BOMBERS. jUST WONDERING IF TRIPLE PASS ARE EVEN AS GOOD AS DOUBLE RADIATORS. wE HAVE A THREE DAY RACE DOWN HERE STARTING mARCH 3 OR FOURTH GETTING EXCITED ABOUT GETTING MORE SEAT TIME AND BEING A BETTER RACER.
VERY INTERESTING STUFF CHAMP, YOU SAID 5 BLADE NOT MORE COMMONLY USED 4 BLADE.
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Post by turnleftdaddy51 on Feb 9, 2015 22:13:48 GMT -6
SHOULD I INCREase timing whwn things are cooler. Whne its not hot ill run 190 or so but in the dog days its 97 daytime and about 85 racetime. Im going to post asking about driving skills. Thanks
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Feb 10, 2015 7:07:39 GMT -6
The only way you can get all the burn stroke is to match amount of pounds of compression to the fuel octane and amount desired or rather needed as the engine tells you by the amount of left over lube left on the spark plug threads as to getting enough and not too lean! Even with twice the fuel burned in some cases you have to realize that with the plugs snow white but not melting it is close! Outdoor temps and moisture content to carry the big O content plays a large part as to staying on to of your game! Its not a short answer but horses like it cool! Do all you can in that respect to please them all and they will bring a few strays back to the heard! My start is always more fuel, vacuum, timing and octane levels as to volumes amounts of said fuels to burn out faster to need more volume and start again until you have to stop because of the number of wet or un-wet threads from over-board draft burn in the pipes makes you stop! It is quite addictive as to seeing how simple gains can be had! Once you start you cant go back to a norm level of contentment as most! Wicked-ness awaits you my friend when leaner than others! More horses --less stress--- too much to say --- read a plug and go for 3-4 oil wet threads! This will guide you at two degrees increments in jets and timing! Too many factors to just say go! Vacuum is everything!!! The same goes for timing ,heat ranges of plugs and the A/C plugs that will melt before disaster strikes with the fire power of the gods to get it all burning! You may want with a self distributer up-grade and several jet sizes more just to cover the quickened burn! Be sure as you only get one shot or about 3-8 laps if wrong even if at 150 degrees! School of hard knocks or rather nothing left to test!!!
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Feb 10, 2015 7:30:54 GMT -6
Thank YOU FOR ALL THAT INSIGHT I EVEN UNDERSTOOD SOME OF IT. bUT RIGHT NOW I NEED A NEW RADIATOR MY SINGLE PASS IS TIRED AND NEEDS TO BE RETIRED TO THE 15 LAP BOMBERS. jUST WONDERING IF TRIPLE PASS ARE EVEN AS GOOD AS DOUBLE RADIATORS. wE HAVE A THREE DAY RACE DOWN HERE STARTING mARCH 3 OR FOURTH GETTING EXCITED ABOUT GETTING MORE SEAT TIME AND BEING A BETTER RACER.
VERY INTERESTING STUFF CHAMP, YOU SAID 5 BLADE NOT MORE COMMONLY USED 4 BLADE. Spacing of the blades to the amount of bite at and when on the RPM scale goes and comes per ratio and design! Trying different ones to match will show 20 degrees drop at idle where it needs the most! As with wave lengths, tire balance , sound to pitch-- matching gets you in the house to even start working at change for the better! Harmonics helps us figure the difference to find the middle ground! Set- ups are the same with me! I do like smooth with my cool as to a winning combo!!!
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Post by leaf4life on Feb 11, 2015 18:05:56 GMT -6
One thing I have learned over the years, heat is horsepower, it's managing it that's important. Too hot no good, not hot enough lower power. I figure around 210 is perfect. I personally run a 4 blade fan off of a GM 50's pickup. Stock gm, the afco remakes are junk, they don't cool well at all. I run a single pass aluminum rad. 30% reduction pulley on water pump, large hole restrictor(more flow). Max engine rpm 7k.I'm ending the main in the summer around 210-220 depending on track conditions. I have called a few racing radiator mfg companies over the years and what they tell me is that flow is more important these days than keeping coolant in the radiator longer(I.e. Smaller hole restrictor) a few of my fellow competitors run a double pass with good results. My thought is a triple pass may work better for you. Just as long as you take into consideration all the other variables that can contribute to a hot running car. Meaning the triple pass may not be your be all, end all. Good fan shroud, fan spacing into the shroud(blades half in half out max efficiency) how fast your spinning your water pump( reduction pulley needed yes /no?) as far as timing advance. I personally never go over 38 deg. Advance. In fact I run 36 all year with good consistent power( race/ pump gas, less than 10-1 compression, stock heads/ exhaust) . As far as coolant. Water wetter and distiller water are the best combo. Hope this helps
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Feb 11, 2015 21:29:28 GMT -6
One thing I have learned over the years, heat is horsepower, it's managing it that's important. Too hot no good, not hot enough lower power. I figure around 210 is perfect. I personally run a 4 blade fan off of a GM 50's pickup. Stock gm, the afco remakes are junk, they don't cool well at all. I run a single pass aluminum rad. 30% reduction pulley on water pump, large hole restrictor(more flow). Max engine rpm 7k.I'm ending the main in the summer around 210-220 depending on track conditions. I have called a few racing radiator mfg companies over the years and what they tell me is that flow is more important these days than keeping coolant in the radiator longer(I.e. Smaller hole restrictor) a few of my fellow competitors run a double pass with good results. My thought is a triple pass may work better for you. Just as long as you take into consideration all the other variables that can contribute to a hot running car. Meaning the triple pass may not be your be all, end all. Good fan shroud, fan spacing into the shroud(blades half in half out max efficiency) how fast your spinning your water pump( reduction pulley needed yes /no?) as far as timing advance. I personally never go over 38 deg. Advance. In fact I run 36 all year with good consistent power( race/ pump gas, less than 10-1 compression, stock heads/ exhaust) . As far as coolant. Water wetter and distiller water are the best combo. Hope this helps This is right on with the field you run with! And believe me I did this for the start to get up to speed with the rest! I had to step up our game a bit as the rest had it all and we didn't! Outside the box put us above and even beyond their reach for years on end! If you have read this old fools thoughts as to how we kicked butt the easy way for us was cheaply and had no choice! Putting frost on a cast iron intake with pump gas ain't exactly easy but it won't happen over 160 for me! I don't knock the way people get things done but try to help them to see the way to get more than money can buy to help balance the scales a bit! Building our on engines, chassis and setting our own dynamics in place in all respects of simplicity that work in favor of others to make the most of things kept us 2 seconds a lap ahead at times! Wining over half our races for years on end! I would not have thought a lot of it would work but with good theory and nothing to loose we did every option that seemed possible! A whirlwind of upsets as we came up threw the classes! A lot of labor and thought in making and doing only our best on a budget! Heat in the blast is more horses and only by expansion of the fuel to make the blast for a better timing of the burn of twice the fuel to get and use all the stroke possible! Slower to get it burning from it being cold it needed more timing and spark to get it fired up to speed at 38 when starting the burn process at 60! Pressure is pressure unless you use compression in your preheating the fuel instead of burn blast to do so! The advantages were great as to a no preload to the engine and hotter burn and longer burn timing of the stroke! It was like no turning weight and nitrous in one! The world learns new technology every day but fuel mileage is involved and standards are set as the box is cast! So you can be in like Flynn or out like a fox! Being able to run a 75% reduction while at 150 didn't hurt us much either as far as horses lost in pumping, sucking or blowing air! Can you see the advantage??? Make it all work with less effort!
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