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Post by racer5056 on Jul 10, 2023 12:37:52 GMT -6
All the rain has put a stop to any racing. 3 weeks now with another weekend of rain coming up so I've been able to work on the car quite a bit.
Replaced the 2-1 quickener. Replaced the power steering box. Still a little slop in the linkages but it seems better. Put custom made metal spacers between the ball joints and a-arms to increase the angle of the arms and raised the front roll center to 2". Moved the tie rods as best I could so they follow the same angle as the lower control arms to help with bump steer. Strung the car and made sure I knew which tires were in and out. Dynamic Camber should also be good.
If the car still won't turn left then something must be wrong somewhere and I can't figure out what might be bottoming out or hitting.
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one8
Fourth Place
Posts: 52
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Post by one8 on Jul 13, 2023 17:58:16 GMT -6
It's been hot here. Low car counts because of the heat. How much toe out did you put in it? I like mine between 1/4"to 3/8". You might want to check your Akerman also. My RF spring spacer had broken the tack welds and shifted to where the shock was hitting it before full travel. Got it fixed up and going out this Saturday and see if that was it. Should nice, only 103° with a heat index around 110°. 🤬
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Post by racer5056 on Jul 16, 2023 8:16:26 GMT -6
We fixed the steering and the driver can now turn the car without cranking the wheel. He says the car wants to turn left too quickly now.
Toe out is currently set at 5/8". RF static camber is now -4.5" and LF is +4.25". Shock travel is RF 2.75", LF 2.125", LR 1.25", RR 2.5". Crossweight is 52% with 230 lbs. of LR bite.
We ran Friday and Saturday. Friday was low banked and Saturday was medium banked. Both nights the inside (closest to the car) of the RR tire was burning hot. Driver said he could feel it spinning and not getting traction.
We put an extender on the LR shock. We figured there wasn't enough up travel when the car transferred weight over to the right side.
During the heat races we put on a 3" offset on the RR which makes the car even all the way around and keeps the front and rear track width close to even also. When it slicks off we put the 4" offset on and that narrows the rear track width and tightens up the car. This should be all we need to do to get ready for the feature but so far the car seems to still be unstable somewhere so I don't think it matters what we put on.
We found out the winning cars are running 3/4" rear stagger. We have been running 2.5" to 2.75" stagger in the rear because I thought that's what we needed. Maybe I was wrong?
We ran 1100 spring in the RF and 1000 in the LF, LR was 225 and RR was 250. The 225 LR and 200 RR didn't seem to work but I have seen many people running 200 LR and 175 RR but I just don't know how that would work out for us.
I don't know what to do. I know I need to fix the RR spinning problem but I still don't know what the driver is trying to say. He says if he doesn't get on the gas on exit the car will spin out. Then he will say the car wants to push towards the wall on exit. So I don't know. All I have are the videos below. See if you can spot the 90 car in the back. Maybe you can see something I can't being I've never driven a race car and you have.
Friday
Saturday
I will try and check the Akerman this week but I think my main problem is fixing the RR spinning problem.
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Post by racer5056 on Jul 16, 2023 17:36:44 GMT -6
The car won't roll in neutral on a flat concrete floor easily. It takes a great deal of effort to push the car a few inches. Jacking the rear end up, with the car in neutral the rear tires spin very hard. The drive shaft will spin very easily. Doesn't feel like a normal car when turning the tires up in the air. It's smooth then catches on something and gets tough as hell. I don't believe this is correct for a race car?
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Post by racer5056 on Jul 17, 2023 15:55:37 GMT -6
I shelved working on the rear for now. I changed our caster and camber. I was never told you should never have negative caster. LF Camber +2.625, LF Caster +1.75. RF Camber -5.625, RF Caster +3.875. I may have to take the left a-arm out and grind it to keep it from rubbing on the shock now.
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one8
Fourth Place
Posts: 52
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Post by one8 on Jul 18, 2023 14:36:24 GMT -6
Can't remember my caster numbers at the moment. If I let go of the wheel she'll turn hard left! For camber I'm at +2.5 LF and -7 or the RF.
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Post by racer5056 on Jul 18, 2023 15:00:21 GMT -6
Ackerman is 0, meaning if I turn the RF wheel 10 degrees the LF also turns 10 degrees. I'm not seeing any way to modify it from the book I have.
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Post by racer5056 on Jul 19, 2023 6:19:52 GMT -6
I measured the wheelbase. Left side is 108.5 and right side is 107. This means I am leading with the RR which causes the car to want to pull to the right, I think. From what I can tell something might be bent somewhere for it to be setup this way. I think this means one of my front lower control arms is bent.
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one8
Fourth Place
Posts: 52
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Post by one8 on Jul 19, 2023 18:19:44 GMT -6
Went back and watched the videos. Couldn't see much. You definitely want the left wheelbase shorter think about it like a solo cup when you roll it on its side. Don't forget about your rear lower arms. When the car rolls over you will naturally gain up angle in the left rear and down angle in the right rear. Too much up angle in theLR will plant the LR tire and cause a push under power on exit. Too much down angle on the RR will unload the RR. If you have adjustable brakes, more rear will help with the tight entry.
1. Figure out the rear end issue. You may have something binding or bent. Check the tubes for straightness.
2. Fix the wheelbase issue. Left shorter. If you can't run adjustable lower arms you can get offset bushings. Or fix whatever may be bent in the front.
3. I know you've been fighting a push. If this has gotten into the drivers head he may not be carrying enough speed into the corners. That'll keep the car from working also.
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Post by racer5056 on Oct 2, 2023 9:18:36 GMT -6
We've been struggling to figure out how to fix the RF. The brake calipers were hitting the shock. The tire was rubbing into the frame.
We cut some of the frame out to accommodate the tire but we've re-welded the shock mounts a couple of times and the brake calipers are still causing a problem. The only way to fix it is to re-mount them on the front. I have seen others who mounted theirs in front but I am unsure of how they went about it.
I am not finding any front mount spindles.
The rear-end was bent and is now fixed so if we can ever get this RF figured out we will be good to go. One more race to go for this year so hopefully everything is figured out before next year begins and we can actually compete.
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one8
Fourth Place
Posts: 52
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Post by one8 on Oct 3, 2023 17:20:32 GMT -6
Obviously you're not required to run stock mount shocks then. I think it would be much easier to move the shock mount to the front side of the control arms.
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Post by racer5056 on Apr 10, 2024 9:05:30 GMT -6
Lots of work done over the winter. Rebuilt a rear-end housing. Moved the RF brake caliper to the front with a simple left side mount on a 3 piece spindle. Doesn't really matter if we put the shock on the front or the back, both would be close to the frame where the spring cup is and both would require the upper a-arm be modified. We'll try to modify an a-arm someday. Something like this: Some other racers are now getting custom built frames since they say stock frames are becoming harder to come by. It's going to be very difficult to compete against someone with a completely stock frame versus almost nothing unnecessary on a custom built one. We're still modifying and they can just go.
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