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Post by modman64 on May 3, 2014 23:19:30 GMT -6
Whats the best engine I can build that will be fast and have manageable horse power. And at what rpm range should I run it. I'm getting ready to build a motor I'm limited on how much I have to spend. I have a 350 four bolt main that I clearanced for a 383 build and I have a 400 four bolt main also. Everyone I talk to says neither block would be good for an engine build. I don't have the money to buy an aftermarket block so this is all I have to work with. Any suggestions on what I could build and not break the block? I ran a 383 two years ago and it just seemed like it want enough. I thought about building a screamer but I don't know which block would be better for a build. Any help would be appreciated.
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on May 4, 2014 11:35:10 GMT -6
I have in past years used a 350 .066 to turn up and win! Length of track was 1/4 and longer needs more! They have some new cams for long stroke engines that takes the crank load off a bit! Low compression is the best way and ease of flow! I prefer rod angle as being gear ratio to the crank turn and not the down force to the main's web in the block! A 384 de-stroked 400.066 with 350 crank and rods will run with most when built correctly! Best on alky because of cooling of 400 over bored block if .066! A de-stroked 400 with stock 350 crank and rods is you most horses at any bore for the money! Stroke and cams of 350 works fine with most builds! A good all season motor with stock crank clearances of one on the rods and two on the mains with .006 on the pistons if not short! Beveled bottom edge of skirts to cool and oil better!
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Post by modman64 on May 4, 2014 23:11:52 GMT -6
I was planning on building a 377 with the four bolt main block I have. I was told it won't handle high rpm range. I would like to turn 8000 tops. Is there anything special I need to do to the block to safely achieve this. I will be using all forged and balanced internals and mechanical roller can and rockers. I built a 377 and ran it in a street stock a fee years back. It ran awesome against all the big cube engines. I never turned it over 6200. I blew it up from running to lean super hot cylinder temps weakened the pistons. I was actually running to hot of a plug. By the time I caught it and corrected the problem I fragged a piston. It was catastrophic. But from examining the internals I noticed the block was fine. It was built from a four bolt main 400 block as well. Do you think I could get the rpm range I want from this set up with a good balance job. As for low compression what would you recommend? Basically if you were building this engine what would you do? Thanks
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on May 5, 2014 7:53:57 GMT -6
Plug heat ranges were most likely not the problem! Lack of fuel by running a power valve that does its job correctly and leans back when you need more or poor cam degree or choice there of! Timing control as RPMs change helps to run cooler! 6 inch rods and high compression along with lack of flow is hard on engines! Valve springs must keep up with RPMS as well as fuel supply by the pump, all fittings, and carb parts! Running cool needs every trick! Cam flow can up compression by degree and adjustments! Read all my other post and check the archives for cooling tips! I came from a past where 283's kicked a 440 magnum's six-packed ass by means of shade-tree horses! I have covered it all in my post!
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 11:47:59 GMT -6
I was planning on building a 377 with the four bolt main block I have. I was told it won't handle high rpm range. I would like to turn 8000 tops. Is there anything special I need to do to the block to safely achieve this. I will be using all forged and balanced internals and mechanical roller can and rockers. I built a 377 and ran it in a street stock a fee years back. It ran awesome against all the big cube engines. I never turned it over 6200. I blew it up from running to lean super hot cylinder temps weakened the pistons. I was actually running to hot of a plug. By the time I caught it and corrected the problem I fragged a piston. It was catastrophic. But from examining the internals I noticed the block was fine. It was built from a four bolt main 400 block as well. Do you think I could get the rpm range I want from this set up with a good balance job. As for low compression what would you recommend? Basically if you were building this engine what would you do? Thanks I personally wouldnt touch a stock block 400 4 bolt main block, they all are either cracked or will crack. And it will never turn 8k and live very long. So if it were me, what would I do? Well give me the 350 block over the 400 every time. If you want to turn 8k RPM and live to rebuild it at the end of the season then you have to use billet main caps, and the best crank you can afford. For my money, give me a good used crank that has been mag checked over a cheep new (Scat) crank, any day. If you want it to live, its all about the bottom end. A 5 grand motor isnt cheep if it blows in a few nights and you could have had something that would have lasted for 8 grand. Dont step over a dollar to pick up a penny. Dave
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Post by startnonthetail on May 5, 2014 12:50:04 GMT -6
For performance and reliability on a budget, I just don't see how you can beat a 383. Build a strong bottom end with off-the-shelf parts, get good heads and intake and strike up a relationship with a good cam builder. You should be able to spin that combo easily to 7500 rpm.
To me, there is a lot of difference in money you will have to spend between a 7500 rpm motor and a 8000 rpm motor.
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Post by modman64 on May 5, 2014 16:22:52 GMT -6
Thanks guys great advice. I have a block prepared for a 3.750 crank already. Was thinking about going with the 3.875 crank and make it a 396 and turn it 7500. Any thoughts on this combo and what I might need to do to make it work for me?
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Post by confused on May 5, 2014 16:30:40 GMT -6
Stick with the 383. That is the best all around combo for a budget. The 395 may need a small base circle cam depending on the rods. Seen a bunch of them blow up until motor builders figured that one out.
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Post by modman64 on May 5, 2014 20:50:23 GMT -6
Thanks for the advice guys. It's unanimous I am going to build a fully forged 383 roller. I used a small base circle cam on the last 383 I built. The engine is four seasons old. The guy I sold it to put it in an asphalt car he loves it. It had a flat tappit cam in it. Right around a .510 lift. I didn't want any problems with the rods hitting the cam. I'm going to buy a solid roller what kind of numbers should I be looking for as far as lift ,duration and RPM range? Just curious I want to see what's working for everyone else. The track I run on has moderate banking with lots of bite. It has a long front stretch and is d shaped in the back stretch it is a 3/8" mile. I ran a 750 Holley on my 383 should I go bigger?
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on May 6, 2014 4:37:39 GMT -6
I couldn't say what kind of engine builders I would recommend as we out run most high dollar engines with junk and out last most just by laps! Our 850 dollar 4.3 was outlawed as to V8s not being able to run with them! A Long stroke just has too much unused travel in the burn of the fuel and dwell timing is hard on bottom ends! I prefer less friction, heat and turning weight with more flow to get things done! Granted I use every advantage to the max but we never had to cheat to win or spend as much to get there! I do not balance! (just match weights and burns per cylinders) No balancer needed! Just a hub and belt to dampen! Hand polished X or O rods with good bolts for strength! A 4 hr. job with polishing, weight matching, honing and floating per rod and piston! Stock oil pan and pump with oil restrictors to keep it down stairs and not have oil that has been heated by the heads or the extra weight that high volume brings along with the horses it takes to sling and pump it with extra clearances not needed! 8700 for any 350 cranked motor should not be a problem with good valve springs and the right cam choice even hydraulic non roller cams! Cool is flow and fast can be cheep if done correctly! It takes a bit more than just motor to win but most that we have ran against think we have plenty! We win with less compression, cubic inches, cost and RPMs most of the time! It just sounds like 10,000 at 6400 when free flowing! We seldom run the same cam in any motor! Torque and horses by cubic inches is a strange thing when they have to outlaw a 4.3 engine over a 383 or 421 but a de-stroked 400 is the closest thing I have found that comes close up to 8300. If it takes a high dollar block, I would say to start with that and go cheep on the rest of the build! Like a car set-up it takes a package to make even any motor run to its potential and tune down to stroke verses bore and the fuels you can run legally! They do test ours for some reason! I do advise good top lube when burning 12 gallons of gas in 20 laps on a quarter mile track!
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Post by startnonthetail on May 6, 2014 6:54:03 GMT -6
Call these guys about your cam. They will work with you to get the most out of your engine combination and their prices are good, too. schneidercams.com/Look in the ToolBox section on this website to play with numbers on whether your carb is right for that motor (it is).
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 7:39:35 GMT -6
Hey FlipFlop, come run your 4.3 or your junkyard block, non balanced, no balancer, stock panned, stock rod engine against the UMP Mods I run with. You got to love this guy! All these years I have been wasting my money! Who knew?
Dave
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on May 6, 2014 20:42:10 GMT -6
Hey FlipFlop, come run your 4.3 or your junkyard block, non balanced, no balancer, stock panned, stock rod engine against the UMP Mods I run with. You got to love this guy! All these years I have been wasting my money! Who knew? Dave Yep! I'm over the hill! 60 degrees of IGN. timing or frost on a cast iron intake with pump gas is a little hard to believe for most even by a Snap-on light and dial indicators or even when scraped off and handed to someone but it happens! Its not Alky, Nitrous, Hydrogen or a turbo but it does bring some serious horses to a cheap build! If I had not done this myself, I would jest also! I never thought racing was a waste of my time or anyone else's money! Its just that after 35 years you just expect more progress to be made than winning! It too gets old like me! I know of no one who does the things I do to get horses by such outlandish measures! I am sure everyone is faster but 2 seconds a lap is hard to make up for most! A mini late model by the rules of today and it does take some Big Bucks just to show up! I have to keep you guys on your toes as best I can! Win a few for me! I do build my own carbs, dist., pick out my own cams, prep my own blocks, a bit of head work and play with spring pressures and geometry! It is not things I could have done and still hang on to the whys of it all! Just being able to adjust valves correctly but differently per cylinder to match out flow in a engine by reading the burn and plugs is a lost art! OLD SCHOOL and HAD TO WIN is the only way I know! If it came in a box, I have my doubts of usefulness in my world! It's a curse I was borne with! My mom had to slap me for asking why so much but I still do! Hydrogen is simple and easy, UFOs are real and I am just waiting to see BIGFOOT run through my yard any day now to complete my life's technology! This is who I am and these are true facts!
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 11:36:52 GMT -6
I Found FlipFlop!
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Post by startnonthetail on May 7, 2014 14:56:09 GMT -6
I Found FlipFlop! Nope, too many teeth...
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