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Post by ambonci21b on Aug 1, 2014 18:15:36 GMT -6
Been thinking about playing with pull bar angle but have won 2 of last 3 nights so hard to change things. We currently 4 bar spring behind lr spring in front RR floated both sides. We have one hole left to move pull bar down. I would like a little more from the middle off. Will moving it down tighten middle to exit and help drive off? And what will moving pull bar to the left do for side bite and drive off? Thanks in advance
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Aug 2, 2014 9:26:30 GMT -6
Hard to know with out trying! I assume you are talking about the ft. of the bar! Adding pull upwards can change all the other lift factors and steer angles! Sometimes a bit if side movement can do the trick but that too can change more than bargained for! Looking for more bight or a looser exit happens best with right drive! If not in the air the left front can add a little right rear drive when preloaded without changings so many others to deal with if it is the weaker of the front! adding to, if the stronger of the two is very fast in changing things without running right rear to start with! The cross switching when hiked or rolled is the only way I have found to rid the ills of hiking the left rear and trying to go left on left drive when the right drive and roll out is trying to help provide! Adding some right drive should help and less rear steer will be needed! We win with a closed rear with a switching cross to provide right drive when needed with both rears pulling more evenly to add forward drive with the steer of roll-out being used to get off the corner quicker! A little weight up high on the right side as far rear as possible has helped a lot of ills in chassis designs! A bit of indexing to add 10-20lbs. to right drive might be best with less ills of other changes if the weaker spring! If the stronger less movement in drop will be needed to hold pounds to the wheel! You never can tell when its rolling down harder or off more on the other side when holding until tried! Rear weight cures a lot but is looked upon as barbaric in my set-up of a controlled left rear only adding right drive to turn freely! Gas weight may be adjusting it for or against you as you run! Consider it being moved to cause this condition! Or the amount in question of change good or bad as to the weight in question being there or diminishing full or empty! I hope some of this helps you to find your own cure!
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Post by ambonci21b on Aug 3, 2014 8:50:10 GMT -6
I am talking about front of pull bar down and the rear end side moving that left.
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Aug 3, 2014 9:53:30 GMT -6
Trying is your only true test with so many factors! More right drive or weight at the wheel to allow rollout to drive you around and off is what you are looking for! Left rear traction is only for compensating for loss during roll! Planting the right and having both wheels holding with a healthy rear percent is the way to get roll out to steer you at speeds when planted on all 4 wheels! Less left drive margin and more right with added steer also in angles being greater right than left to balance against the pounds differences! Try a twenty five pound switch on the rear! Pounds, spring, or lead! At the wheel only left to right side!
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Aug 3, 2014 10:40:24 GMT -6
Is traction the problem or getting off straighter sooner? Are you on the floor going in or having to wait on traction to hold the horses! Timing drop with weights or more low-end fuel can hook you right up without changes to the chassis! They all come right back with a car link or to with speed there to hold the masses better! What would you do with fifty more horses that bite than you can use now if not on the floor! Horses are no good unless useable! Having more than most and using all the lead and fuel and timing drop to hook is my winning game! Blowing by them at the flag-stand is the easy part! Passing 3-5 in one turn gets harder! High man in points starts in the rear every time at some tracks here! De-tune for a second or two and then go a little lean is like Nitrous that is if hooked! Upping the lead and downing the spoiler is faster if close to 61 rear percent! You only have traction if not lifting and changing pull bar angles during the roll process! Our pull bar gains angle during roll and the left side stays put! With more load on the right in the turn, this is where traction has to take place to hook and straighten coming off the turn! The left front wheel has to stay preloaded to transfer right rear weight! Compressed to the max to allow travel and not loose the right rear tension through the cross! Two weighted rear wheels with roll out steer of the right to turn on a dime and hooked to the max! Are you getting my drift in improving your set-up!
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Post by ambonci21b on Aug 4, 2014 5:45:44 GMT -6
Kind of I guess. We don't run spoiler. So ur saying add rear% we run around 57. 51% left. We are trying to get car to stick better on one end of track. And get little more consistent with middle and exit. We r only using 1 7/8 RR shock which I think is a problem
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Aug 4, 2014 6:35:34 GMT -6
Never ran so stiff on any shock! Think of them as timing of transfer! Stick handling or rear traction??? Is it loose getting in the throttle or just a transition problem before traction??? too tight or so loose you can't get in the gas soon enough? I never needed split valve shocks but have run may in years past! 40 on the rack in the trailer to choose from! I can see how some may help in situations but choose to address the issue at hand and not how fast it happens if unwanted at all! Give me more info on the problem at hand! Planting the right, keeping right drive to go with the left is a must with as little transition as possible to get off straighter! Compressed heights on the right spring when rolled and hiked and lifted can leave low poundage if dumping right and gaining left! Adding to right drive may just aid the left in lifting! Calm things a bit on the left to even out control! At times a higher idle speed going in can speed things right along with stiffer, slow transitions! 1750 rpms holds corner speeds pretty well! Check your indexing of the spring movement! Very good place to start!
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Post by confused on Aug 4, 2014 11:29:51 GMT -6
Have you tried increasing the LS? I like mine around 52.7 without me in it.
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Post by ambonci21b on Aug 4, 2014 15:45:56 GMT -6
Does anyone psy attention to cross weight anymore? Ours seems all over from week to week. Anywhere from 50.5-52%. Or is that driver preference. Our car seems inconsistent week to week running the same rear % (57) and or lr bite (60). I'm wondering if its what we change as far as wheel weights thus affecting cross weight.
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Post by confused on Aug 4, 2014 16:10:05 GMT -6
Wheel weight directly affect cross weight. Cross is a relationship between the RF/LR and the RR/LF. I personally don't pay any attention to it.
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Aug 4, 2014 21:51:02 GMT -6
Our drivers have no fear of not turning at 54 left and 54 cross but don't try this at home! It took a lot of years to get to a point of super tight that turns on a dime and drivable by most any driver to win! My cross switches when lifting and plants the right rear before the roll! It goes back getting straight coming off with track angle and right drive changing back to left rear on the throttle going in, and getting off! Weight placement LLR, springs and shocks does it all with the help of extra neg. caster and 1/2 inch of roll-out! Each set-up will require varying numbers to work correctly! Our two new cars alike had to have different numbers to work the same switching drivers! It's a different world it seems than cars!
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Post by ambonci21b on Aug 5, 2014 10:13:07 GMT -6
Flip your saying more left and cross makes the car tight but also stays planted on the right side?
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Aug 5, 2014 15:35:47 GMT -6
Only by my set up switching the cross to plant the right rear when lifting the throttle and having the left springs preloaded to help it roll when nosing more easily can you run so tight to the track using all 4s for steer traction! A full 4 wheel even traction when rolled holding in the turn and doesn't change much under power to loosen any wheel! Nose and planted right rear when lifting sends weight to the right side before the roll to hold it tight to the track so you can turn when getting in harder and faster with less or no braking! Slingshot effects and G forces working together! Read my other post to get some idea of how it works!
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Post by ambonci21b on Aug 6, 2014 5:23:27 GMT -6
Does the drop or lack there of of the left chassis bar under rear end on the left side affect the ability to lean over on RR? We have to run a chain or axle slams the underslung bar
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Aug 6, 2014 6:53:10 GMT -6
Angle in upward push for traction also pull down when getting out of the throttle! Shocks control this as far as speed of transitions go! If lifting the chassis to move the rear end forward causes unwanted steer in the traction process, a little lead will help traction with less bar angles too! Too much j-bar and pull-bar angle does this ( slamming ) also! Traction is achieved by hooking both rears with a healthy rear percent and correct bar angles that are minimal in transitions! Then the pull bar can be flat if indexed at the diff. properly to supply you needs! I go with pulling both ft. wheels and backing down from there the horses with forward drive! Steering is just needed if other things such as driving the left wheel when trying to turn left! Right drive turns left easily as roll out is working! All that lifts the left side is going against keeping the right hooked! You need more left at static to hold getting off when rolled as the roll transfers some weight to the right! If there before the roll or a more even balance of weight at roll over, no traction on either wheel is noted! If dropping left when wanting roll to the right you would have to wait before getting it to, unless back in the throttle! The only time my traction affects steer much by motion is to lift the right side to straighten up faster coming off the turn! A natural roll going in with no binding factors holding the roll is faster for us! Once smoothly in the corner no upsets should be noted on or off the throttle! A pan hard bar is smoother than a j-bar being used as a traction device but finding the roll center with a shorter bar is harder!!!
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