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Post by hasben on Feb 14, 2013 20:38:43 GMT -6
2 of them are seasoned 4 bar modified drivers. The other that has driven for so long i do not know how much 4 bar modified experience but he has driven late models a lot. I know - it not a modified.
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Post by hasben on Feb 16, 2013 8:39:25 GMT -6
Thanks everyone for your input! Bench racing season is nearly over for us. Hopefully we will get a test and tune day in before our first race March 16th.
Johnny V are you going to be ready?
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paw
Pit Crew
Posts: 2
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Post by paw on Jun 12, 2013 11:11:33 GMT -6
Also might want to check your 90/10 travel. Maybe topping out before rear rocks all the way back.
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Mar 2, 2014 11:15:40 GMT -6
Pull bar location points and angles are mostly for traction control! If you look at things as is there purpose! Lower rear location for more leverage and raise the front as to raise pivot angle to center of rear axle and not worry so with other angles for traction but steer! A 53-54 cross with the same left side yields bite along with a healthy rear percent. The right ft. spring needs to be 100-200 pounds stronger than the left but it needs to have that much more weight on it as to ft. compressed heights for reactions and rebound on and off of the throttle!
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Post by clbaker25x on Mar 2, 2014 20:27:42 GMT -6
Stiffer on right front? Great way to create forward bite. I hope everybody we are running against are running the biggest right front springs they can find and little to no bite. I truly believe the secret to these cars is getting them to turn in the middle of the corner while maintaining forward drive. A stiff right front spring is not going to help with either of these things.
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Mar 3, 2014 3:31:45 GMT -6
Its a package deal as is any set up that has won hundreds of races! I do have a clue of the struggle! You may hike the rear and lean on the right while pulling the left front with short bars and we have done all that and more to win too but have found it easier on all fours! We too are on the floor going in the corner! NOTE The weight is on the left and compressed holding the car off of the stiffer rt. un compressed spring until you lift transferring weight to the rt ft then on to the left which is sending it to the right rear planting that tire going in until roll gets there, as your cross has switched and now allows weight of the now compressed rt ft holding left rear as the cross is balanced almost! When throttle is applied wheel weights are balanced until shifting off rt ft to left rear! I have side bight and steer by lifting, I have both wheels pulling with added traction rolled and off the corner and rt ft as well as rear weight to hold the car going in and off! It truly is a pretty sight to behold high or low, and will allow for turning any where, any time with the total package of springs, shocks, percentages, off-sets, location of weights ect...
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Post by ukblue on Mar 3, 2014 6:48:08 GMT -6
flipflopoo1o I enjoy reading your post how would you set-up a pierce clamp car with a stiffer rf and with the spring on top . I have ran a 600rf and 800lf lots of time with a pair of 200s in the rear with 10pds of bite.I have also thought about switching the front springs 800rf 600lf and switching from the straight pan-hard to the j-bar and really going soft on the rf shock running left side % and rear the same and playing with more cross believe me I have like a really soft rf also I think you can make both work and both of you guys are right the reason I never have tried a stiffer rf spring I figured the clamped in front on the left rear with would hit too hard on the throttle and push would like to hear your thoughts on this thanks
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Mar 3, 2014 13:16:24 GMT -6
While every design warrants great consideration as to why they did this and how to make it work, Pan hard and j-bar alone warrants stitching springs and shocks to make each design work in its nature (IF) j-bar is or short bars are used as traction devices instead of steer control and not just keeping the rear off-set under control! This gets complicated fast as to reactions of the rest of things! Basic laws of motion are still in place and need to be applied that way. Each car has quirks as even to driver preferences. After 30 designs and 15 winning drivers, all have their flaws including me first of all! I have never drove but educated each driver as to the working of these different set ups as to understand why make a change! I fear my understanding will die with me, not from not trying for 35 years but it's complex nature! It is not about static bite but transfer of weight. Driver control of things by just lifting or gas-ing it as well as how and what happens in geometry in the front end changing roll center, rear percents, rear balance by just a turn of the steering wheel twisting the frame to roll or come back to where it needs to be after entry! This may sound a bit around the mulberry bush as it is to most! Start with total weight and rear percents as to springs and shocks, Design weight placement for ease of transfer! For instance, gas tank and battery weight! If your tank is on the right we will loose some 8-12 gallons of fuel during a 20 lap 1/4 mile race with x amount of cautions! This alone can change more than any one factor! simply put every detail is part of a set-up and should be used to a advantage if possible! While loosing rear percent as the track gets slicker is normal, compensation should be made in left rear bite by adding cross as you burn the fuel! This works as a plus most of the time as roll center changes and you can change it to for the better to loosen or tighten side bite going in! A 25 stronger spring on the left rear, if correct rates are applied with (All else in mind) helps the front split transfer by geometry of the front end when turned a bit more. And if you create more steer in the front and rear process while holding the same side-bite keeping roll under control, Loose isn't so bad if faster! I know, (one thing at a time but they all are connected) A wooden model of sorts with moving parts would help while racing in your mind! Calm every aspect of movement by throttle response and get a grip on what makes it work by thought is the best advice I can give, one thing at a time!
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