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Toe Out
Feb 27, 2013 14:00:41 GMT -6
Post by frazman187 on Feb 27, 2013 14:00:41 GMT -6
I am currently running a 3/16 toe out on my monte carlo. Most people say 1/4 toe out to 1/2 toe out. I understand the more toe out you have the more your tires scrub speed away.
The current setup feel great all over, but what will it change increasing the toe out?
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Toe Out
Feb 27, 2013 17:54:33 GMT -6
Post by leaf4life on Feb 27, 2013 17:54:33 GMT -6
For me, if the turns are long sweeping corners, ill add toe, it seems to slow down the reaction to your wheel input in the corner, it's true it scrubs speed but most of the time made up in this style (pure stock) is in the corners to exit. Add a little to see if you can be smoother though the corners, hope this helps
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Toe Out
Feb 27, 2013 18:39:49 GMT -6
Post by frazman187 on Feb 27, 2013 18:39:49 GMT -6
The track that I'm running at is a 1/4 mile track "high bank" but it really isn't. I had my car out last Saturday for my first and final test and tune until race season starts for me this saturday. I had no idea how the car was going to handle the turns, because the last car I drove was someone elses setup and was possibly not my driving style. I had difficulty trying to come into the turn wide and cut down across the bottom smoothly and exit smoothly. Now the car that I built which is now my own and I am also on my own with the setup, I feel like I can turn in and cut across the bottom and exit very nicely and the rear end doesn't feel like it wants to pass me up.
If I add more toe out will it tend to loosen the car a little or should I adjust the tire pressures and offset on the RR.
My tire pressures are currently 2" offset LF - 15, 2" offset LR - 15, 2" offset RF - 25, 2" offset RR - 20. The track conditions were more of a tacky track rather than a black dry slick track.
Maybe I should just leave it as is though to see how it will be on a dry slick track, since I know where everything is at and is predictable right now. Opinions are always welcome though.
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Toe Out
Feb 27, 2013 19:09:34 GMT -6
Post by leaf4life on Feb 27, 2013 19:09:34 GMT -6
If the car feels good, I'd keep it where it's at. If your corners are short, I'd keep the toe where it's at. Is this a leaf or coil car?
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Post by frazman187 on Feb 28, 2013 10:08:18 GMT -6
Coil springs
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Toe Out
Feb 28, 2013 15:54:54 GMT -6
Post by frazman187 on Feb 28, 2013 15:54:54 GMT -6
If I wanted to loosen up the rear end a bit all I would have to do is increase the right rear tire pressure a couple lbs without messing with the rest of the setup. Correct?
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Toe Out
Feb 28, 2013 17:23:55 GMT -6
Post by leaf4life on Feb 28, 2013 17:23:55 GMT -6
When I want to loosen up, I add stagger to the rear end( left smaller right bigger) I don't really play with pressure much after I find a good wear pattern, I will usually start 15 all around, 17 on RF in heat if its tacky. If it goes dry ill take stagger out to about 1/2 in, I'll be 1-1 1/2 in in the heat. Is your problem turning into the corner? That's a big problem with strict rules and coil cars
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Post by leaf4life on Feb 28, 2013 17:37:10 GMT -6
Either that or move your RR out with offset.
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Toe Out
Feb 28, 2013 19:48:16 GMT -6
Post by frazman187 on Feb 28, 2013 19:48:16 GMT -6
The RR offset is 3" right now. So if I want to loosen it up a bit I would put say a 2" offset tire on the RR of the same size or would I put on a 4" offset? I would tend to think that if I put the 2" offset on the RR it would loosen the car up.
I am trying to understand some of the wheel offset logic that some people make it into a grey area rather than black and white.
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Toe Out
Feb 28, 2013 19:59:58 GMT -6
Post by leaf4life on Feb 28, 2013 19:59:58 GMT -6
On any location on the car, the closer to the car the wheel is, the more load that wheel carries, 2 off loosen, 4off tighten. On some cars a 4off can "hook" the RR and make it push bad in traffic, others it works well, give it a shot see what happens. I run 3 offs across rear, 2offs on front, run a 78 camaro. My car likes 4off on LR on dry slick, shoves nose on RR,just some thoughts to go off of. Do you run racing or DOT tires? Size?
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Toe Out
Mar 4, 2013 15:43:12 GMT -6
Post by frazman187 on Mar 4, 2013 15:43:12 GMT -6
I am running DOT tires. 255-60/15 on left side and 275-60/15 on the right side. On Saturday the track started out semi black and was inconsistent so I left the pressures and offest alone for tacky track, but as the track went dryslick and consistently black I started getting loose to where I had to dump a lot of speed going into the turn to prevent slinging the ass end around. The setup was LF 14 psi LR 14 psi RF 23 psi and RR 19 psi with a 2.25 offset on the RR.
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Toe Out
Mar 4, 2013 17:07:31 GMT -6
Post by leaf4life on Mar 4, 2013 17:07:31 GMT -6
Heck, that sounds like what used to run when I ran DOT, now it's all Hoosier g60 ( BTW, they have at least 50% more grip than DOT) heat race was what you got now, but in main I'd go 275 3off across rear and RF 2off ,put the stagger across front, when it goes dry on a metric, you kinda want to be "on" the right side of the car, only stagger was with air pressure (19 right, 14 left) the RF sounds a little too high, mabey keep @19 or so?All in all, I would try and move the wheel in on the RR at least and try it, if your track is very smooth, you can also go down on pressure too, I wouldn't go any more than 15 though, also monitor your tire temps( by hand) and pressure gain in heat and main, it will tell you what corner is working harder than another and May tell you another direction to go in your setup.
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Toe Out
Mar 4, 2013 17:10:59 GMT -6
Post by leaf4life on Mar 4, 2013 17:10:59 GMT -6
Mabey your spring rate is a bit high for your track?
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Toe Out
Mar 4, 2013 17:43:49 GMT -6
Post by frazman187 on Mar 4, 2013 17:43:49 GMT -6
I dont know, I think I will try one thing at a time and see how things go and adjust from there. I probably should add another 65 lbs to the trunk area because after the heat race with about 10 gallons of fuel in the tank, when I went across tech pad and weighed in I was right at 3400 lbs and the lower limit of our pure class is 3400.....almost got DQed
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Toe Out
Feb 26, 2014 22:52:14 GMT -6
Post by Toywagon on Feb 26, 2014 22:52:14 GMT -6
One more thing to consider about tuning with front toe settings.
Toe does create scrub, which also generates heat. Alot of times, especially on dry, you can easily get rear tires to heat up, (sometimes too much). Front tire heat, specifically LF heat, can be much harder to get.
Running toe up higher, even as much as 3/4 to 1 inch out, helps build LF heat to a tire that typically runs the coolest of the 4. This can really be helpful on a dry track near the end of a race IF your setup typically gets pushy, and you notice that your LF tire seems to be alot cooler than the other 3.
Just wanted to throw that out there.
Jim
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