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Post by brian on Jun 7, 2014 10:32:08 GMT -6
i have a imca northern sport mod. i race mostly on a 1/2 mile track i can get in the corners good and i feel ok getting off the corners but mid corner wants to push i feel if i just can get the car to stick in the middle the car will work.
is there anything i can do to stick the in the middle without changing getting in and off.
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Jun 8, 2014 18:44:49 GMT -6
Most cars of today hike the left rear to steer more than needed but are looking for traction the same way they always have! What worked for our teams with great success for 35 years is a bit old school but never failed to add drivability with-out hiking and the transitions and added steer to get a smooth corner in and out, on or off the throttle! Check out all my post in all classes on any related set-up or horse power options! If you need a more hands on fix for your set-up, consider the extremes that are causing these problems to start with! J-bar to high is the number one! It's use for traction is against mother nature! Having left side bars higher than right when rolled is second in my book! The book is 35 years of winning thick! More info is needed if you persist on this set-up! Glad to help any way I can!
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Post by Toywagon on Jun 12, 2014 16:26:16 GMT -6
Hey Brian,
What are your track conditions and banking? A mid corner push can be tricky depending on a heavy track or a dry slick track.
More specific, would be if your already back on the throttle, and start pushing the nose vs. a dry track, where your either on the brakes, or off the brakes trying to roll back to the throttle and having the front of the car just not rolling the corner.
Does the car turn better when your slower, like in traffic, and worse on an open track, or opposite?
Its always harder to get suspension roll, rear steer, and bar angle to come into play on a dry track, so alot of the recommendations will rely heavily on what the track is like when your picking up the push.
If I were to assume your in the feature on a dry track, and im thinking a 1/2 mile is a momentium track and not a stop and go with long straights and tight corners, I would think that even tho it's mid corner, your still either slowing, or in transition, but not yet back to heavy throttle. If this is the case, I would approach my setup in a way to free entry up a bit more. Without knowing more about track layout and surface, its just hard to be specific.
Jim
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Post by brian on Jun 14, 2014 12:10:17 GMT -6
hey flipflopoo1oo and jim i want to thank you for the help. Last night i lead 10 out of 12 started to get alittle pushy finished 2nd on a dry slick. i kind of went old school i lowered my pan hard mount on my rear end i was running around 16 to 18 degree pan hard par angle lowered it to 8 degree. the car turned really good for the first 6 or so laps then i started to get pushy not bad but pushy. does it sound weird to have a pushy car on a dry slick.
jim i was wondering if on a dry slick should i favor mostly front brake or more rear
the track is a big half mile that is normly dry slick the corners are a little tight though so its not really a momentium track im starting to wonder if my style of driving hurts me on a dry slick
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Jun 14, 2014 15:44:27 GMT -6
Three wheel does help a tight car but having to brake kills momentum! Too much front or rear should loosen the car! Left rear traction can help turn a car going in of the gas or cause a push to the right if right is not staying planted as well when on the gas! Low air or flex can cause heat factors as to grip fading when left is staying cool or airing up the right side and causing less roll to steer! Air pressure should be looked upon as springs too! Turning on a dime works great for a few laps before heating the right rear up if not steering enough in the corners! Where is your fuel tank location? Right side is going to tighten as the race goes! Slicker needs more left rear as the track changes but other things may cause your problem! Shock oil temps can change timing variations changing pivot points in the crosses to tighten by freeing all movements! It's always the car not working by changing or just not changing with the track changes! Right rear is the place to look at closely or variations in shocks! A taller left ft. may be a easy fix if nothing else found! It will load spring to help roll, lessens left side weight roll factors, plants right rear traction so rollout should work better, should nose on the right ft. easier by holding left up and lessoning tension on right ft. When correct it should plant and nose to turn just by lifting with no brake or front steer needed so that its planted and steering so that it holds when you do! Corner speed is key to a fast car! Be ready to turn it up or change gears when correct! How are you in lap traffic? 2 seconds per lap in timing our car to 125 others in hot laps at one race! No cheating needed! You can loose a few friends but pickup a few fans in this process! They all are momentum tracks when working with mother nature!
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Post by Toywagon on Jun 30, 2014 19:39:00 GMT -6
Sorry so long to reply Brian,
Tricky question to answer on the brake bias. However, your car getting pushy as the race goes along, ( without me seeing the track) makes me think the track was getting slicker and slicker as the race went along. As track speeds get slower, chassis roll, rear steer, and just grip in general are harder to get.
The variables are, did the race go flag to flag? Were you buried in traffic, or did the cars spread out and you could get into the corner the way you wanted without slowing for traffic. Did you change your driving style as the race went along trying to run down the guy in front of you?
All things considered, you got some great feedback from the car as the night went along. On a future night of racing, you have a good setup to tune with, taking in consideration that you ended up being a tick tight at the end of the night.
Actually Brian I think alot of setups are pushy on a try slick track, and the drivers have to shake them loose getting into the corner resulting in alot of wheel spin or having to wait on traction to get off the corner.
On brakes, I give the car what it wants during the race. Remember on your adjuster, that if you bottom it out in either direction, you bind the adjuster, and must slightly rotate it back away when you feel it bottomed out. As part of my initial setup for dry or tacky, I like to keep the brakes somewhat neutral so I have plenty of adjustment either way if needed. I do not like using brakes to turn a car on tacky or slick, but sometimes the setup is just that far off.
In my opinion, as part of the setup before pulling out on the track for dry slick, I don't like to have the brakes already cranked way to the front. If the setup is loose, or the car gets looser as the race goes along, the only cockpit adjustment you have besides changing driving style, is already set to all front percentage.
When you noticed it getting pushy, were you back on the gas to any degree? Do you think the track was getting slicker, or possibly taking some rubber and getting some traction back in it?
Jim
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Jun 30, 2014 21:20:14 GMT -6
When on 3 wheel brakes our cars are looser front or rear! Center is our tight spot and most of the time the drivers go one round to the front and then rear to tighten! One round changes it all for us when on three! We are most never loose or slow but it takes left rear added lead and extreme caster to keep control of changing poundage and less roll! Steer changes drive at the rear wheels and pounds easily when rolled to a balance! Even traction and even steer at your control while in the turn or down the straights! A small right turn twist the frame left to add left rear and right drive at the same time keeping poundage hooking the same while turning the car to correct it self! 1/2 rollout is all it needs!
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