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Post by dirtracer34 on Nov 24, 2014 13:58:37 GMT -6
I have a 77 Camaro street stock that needs a new front clip and I found a 76 Nova front sub frame assembly. I have heard that they are the same. Will this interchange and fit under my car using all the Camaro steering and suspension components? What differences are there between the two sub frames or problems I may run into installing it. Also what suspension and steering parts can be interchanged? Thanks
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Post by digger on Nov 24, 2014 18:04:51 GMT -6
They will interchange. It's been years ago when we did it and I can't remember exactly which parts worked and what didn't but I don't remember any major problems.
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Post by billy5x on Nov 24, 2014 19:59:54 GMT -6
camaros are wider then novas
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Nov 24, 2014 21:23:46 GMT -6
Nova has larger frame horns and is a bit heavier even chopped! If the rules allow you can cut out the back side of the cross-member and re-plate thin if you leave a little lip hanging over for added strength! Trim and drill A-arms and use lighter steering links, cut the center front off near drag link! I always add a low brace parallel to the frame to support the horns more! I hate getting them bent! Be sure to go over the factory frame welds for more support! Most are lacking a bit! Be careful if cutting out for springs or jack bolts not to weaken the horns in the process! Most builders do for repeat business!!!
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Post by dirtracer34 on Nov 25, 2014 6:57:12 GMT -6
thanks for all the info i will put them both side by side to take detailed measurements and verify everything before i install the nova frame but figured i would ask before i spent the time pursuing that clip. flipflopoo1oo when you say cut the cross member and re-plate am i able to just reuse my current crossmsmber from the camaro or is the rear width different? If i have the front body bushing mounts still in the car, will the subframe actually bolt into those mounts just to make everything installing easier? A little info on the swap the front clip was not actually hit or damaged but the subframe has been heavily modified, aftermarket front mounts with screw jacks have been installed and they are not legal including moving the engine back. Looking at all the work to put everything back to stock it would be easier to actually just re-clip the whole front of the car.
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Nov 25, 2014 7:33:45 GMT -6
Not so sure on the switch being less trouble! You would never get me to switch unless a have too and then it would still have to be Camaro! I don't have all the answers for you but I know easy! Find another clip or car!!! Give your location and someone may have a spare just laying around! You may even find a damaged one with the replacement metal needed! Does it have a full cage now???
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Nov 25, 2014 8:19:13 GMT -6
My reference to flat plating was new frame prep and making it lighter! Be sure to add a bolt in cross bar over the ft. of the engine and weld a solid cross bar under the radiator to brace the horns! I have seen so many damaged from lack of a pound or two of bracing or over zealous hulling, even on full cages! Design is everything when it gets hit hard! Be sure to weld up the lower A-arm rear mounts as some wrap too far away from the welds and bend under easy killing the caster range you need to make it handle! If the Camaro wasn't done it is probably rolled under and you can see why when you look at it! I sometimes weld a 1/2 square stock across at the frame to give even more support! We have had them tear out of the frame if not even after welding! You don't want to have to do it on race day!
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Post by dirtracer34 on Nov 25, 2014 9:02:02 GMT -6
Yea the car is a full cage front to rear and actually designed and built to run more of a super street class but was only a mid pack car then I switched tracks and classes. The only thing that it doesn't meet the rules of the class i ran this past year is with the front upper mounts modified by being lowered to the point the frame is notched so they can get the full amount of travel. (I did this a couple years ago after reading an article on movement center, but actually think it is hurting me more than its helping me.) It is currently a very solid strong chassis, however the car has run out front and started drawing a lot more attention of other racers so it needs to be put back to stock mounts. I was thinking cutting support roll bar's flush on the old subframe and a new one would just bolt into place being the car should be somewhat straight, then i can weld everything i had going into the old frame back into place of the new frame. That seems a lot easier then cutting out the spring pockets and squaring all that up. Also i will know for sure i have a stock car and all my angles and everything will be GM stock. I think the more i hear for you i will start looking for a Camaro front clip. So one more question are all the camaro\firebird sub frames the same from 70-81. I know there are differences in steering and suspension, but if i got a bare frame all my suspension parts should all bolt up then? Thanks for all the info
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Nov 26, 2014 6:00:09 GMT -6
Don't start me to lying! I don't have a clue! I will consult my son-in-law the Firebird numbers nut! I never move A-arm mounts and have had it out with chassis builders for years on their ease of weakening the frames for their ease of placement of jack bolts and screwed up set ups that mandate such things along with spindle changes and special ball joints and links to make it work! OLD SCHOOL AT HEART! Just lean it left to start with!!!!
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Dec 10, 2014 11:11:40 GMT -6
If having any handling or traction problems a 200 split up front and a 25 rear will get the cross up and if rules allow and rear springs are the same a 1/2" drop of the left rear ft. mounting bolt hole of the spring will make it hook a bit better off the corner! The left rear gives up fast so if the same swap sides and see the new traction come alive or just replace the left rear every ten races if running soft!
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Post by dirtracer34 on Dec 16, 2014 13:05:47 GMT -6
Traction off the corner has never been a problem unless I end up with the tight-loose condition from entry. Usually my problems are all corner entry or right before the apex being too tight and pushing. I do have a 1000 lf and 1200 rf next season may try to come up to a 1100 on the lf and see if that helps me out at all.
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Dec 16, 2014 18:08:47 GMT -6
Sounds too stiff for the front weight, a 800 and 1000 may be more suited to work with the rear set! Also having a 3-3 shock on the right and a 5-5 on the left should ease it into the corner and improve the nose to transfer the weight from the drop to the left ft. and then transfer to the right rear to plant the right side as to hold and turn on a dime! 3s or 4s on the rear shocks! The cross is switched a bit in this process or at least lessened! The lead weight added to the left rear holds the tire planted when lifting to help drag the car left into the turn also! Once all is set as should be, the 100-200 preloaded left front will help it roll easy also! This is the spot to fine tune with out upsetting all else! Even ft. roll out can be used to tune with if need be! A lot use the rear with more roll out when tacky and less when slick as it changes many settings! You just have to be aware of how the change at any corner effects the whole car! Using a taller or shorter tire in one spot as the left ft. holds the other settings well, other wise you loose the range settings you worked so hard to achieve! We ran a 900 on the left on our first heavy Nova car with a 1200 rt. but the rear had more split and you backed it in the corner back in the day! More ways to turn than by leaving the rear open but a safe 1/8 open is good to start with and close as needed! A steel adjustable mount is a good thing to have on the right side! We also used a 2 right and a 3 left lowering block to help set preloads and lean of the chassis!
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Post by flipflopoo1oo on Dec 16, 2014 18:16:33 GMT -6
Getting some help with extra caster will send you where ever you want it to go by helping control of the pounds on the correct drive wheel to push it right or left as you steer if needed! You have a hard time going left with the left rear drive doing all the pushing the front to the right! Most are over steering and turned all the way to need so much left rear or just to make it work with their rears always open, even down the straights! You want believe how free the chassis will move once steering correctly by caster use controlling both ft. steer, pounds and rear drive wheels for steer!
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Post by dirtracer34 on Dec 17, 2014 7:05:59 GMT -6
Thanks for the good advice I will try to incorporate it into the car for next season and if I have any more questions I know where to ask them.
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Post by leeboy on Jan 26, 2015 0:20:23 GMT -6
Not sure if you tried yet , but ther not direct bolt in . If I remember correctly, the camaro frame section that bolts up under the car is narrower between the rails than a nova .
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