Rubber bushed J-bar

Chassis designs all seem built just a inch off to make us by another part! If you can raise the ride heights or fudge to the right and space bars back to a norm with out spring perches being off or drive angles, you might get another 1/2- 3/4 les but The free spot may be the lower hole on your car! It changes with every adjustment or spring change! I wouldn't worry with it so much as to fixing other problems! What are they? And where are your sets now on the rest of the car! I just dropped one from 18.5 rake to 7.75" He was riding too high to see the track! Set-up numbers, shocks and springs poundage! Running the rear closed a bit is good if bars give enough steer to open with the right side bars higher 2 degrees or a hole higher! Some times a ride height adjustment can get you in-between holes if needed! It does change pull bar angles and J-bars and side to side along with pinion angles, roll centers and arm side angles if j-bar is not moved in the process! Its a pain to set up and then adjust anything but the j-bar! A nut can be removed to give a shorter length at the ends, if not done already! Does it steer too much or too much roll or too easily???

I see where your coming from on the J bar.

I remember my dads setup help from years ago. I lost my dad back in 2009. He won a ton of races way back when he did it, without scales and all of the stuff we use now. I use the new stuff in the shop, but don't rule out that beer can or cig pack at the track if you need a quick reference! =) Those old guys can just look at a car and see if its right or not. Sure miss my dad there helping me.

There are alot of guys on this site that can help you get really close. Im on a store built chassis, so I have baseline #'s that I can go to making my initial setup alot easier.

Lining up the left side track is a good place to start. With the car at ride height, look thru the back of the car at your left and right bars, and see if they both toe in slightly where they mount to the chassis. If one bar is toed in alot, while the other is toed out, the rear end is too far in one direction. You can also look down from the top and see how the drive shaft goes from tranny towards your gear, to see if the rear end might be to one side or the other.

There are also multiple chassis mounts for your J bar mount that can change where the J bar bolts to the chassis that might help. You can get into roll center and other issues by moving this mounting point, but alot of B mod rules require you to have 19" center to center on that bar so you may have to do it.

here is a Link to the pic of the bracket I was referring to. If your J bar mount isn't square tubing, this wont work.

image.circletrack.com/f/techarticles/9715728+w195/ctrp_0806_06_z+pre_season_prep+car_part.jpg

Thanks for the link to picture Toywagon. I always heard a picture can tell a 1000 words. My problem jumps out in picture. I have 2x2 frame mount centered verticuly between upper and lower frame tubes. Picture shows theirs to the left side of tubes. There is the 2" I am lacking to make it work right. Will fix that. As per your other what to look at suggestions all look right as to placement of rearend. I should clarify what my chassis is. I built cage on back a few years ago using Dirtworks measurments and never stubbed it. This winter with my daughters help we put a 73 chevelle stub  on it(only thing we had in our junkyard).                                                         My next ??  Camber & Caster  I'm thinking camber L.F.=+3 R.F.=-5  caster L.F.=+2 1/4  R.F.= +5 1/2  toe out 3/8 to 1/2   Am I in the ballpark ?? Don't have a gauge so will use angle finder on rotor for camber.  Have to come up with a hillbilly way to do caster.   B.T.W.= age is just a number Flipflop. At our hillbilly junkyard we all fight over the rockin chair under the shade tree. No dibs to the elderly. L.O.L.          Phantom309

We run 6 left and 12 right to twist hell out of the frame to steer both ends of the car! This can give or remove left rear from 80 down to 40 or up 140 to help change the drive from wheel to wheel while rolled to prevent a push and go where you steer it anytime or where, while deep in the throttle! It takes all fours planted for this to work! Both uppers are behind the lowers! I build my own shafts in the floor and never had a vibration but have carried quite a few back to a builder that were out bad! No jig or lathe, just common sense! -2 lt., +3-4 rt. camber works for us. I haven't used a tool to set things on the front end in 30 years even on my street cars! I even balance my own tires with out a machine or tool! Don't be scared! Put a eye on it and go kick some butt! The last one I didn't set took them 4 hours on the machine to put it where I said! Scales do help tell you where its at but someone has to still know which way to go with the car to get what you want! It is only one more aspect of a set-up! I still feel young around motors and chassis that win with the touch of this old hand! I do not drive, I just make them drivable to win Rookie or not!

No fooling! 10 and 12 of the same flavor if chassis will allow it to happen! Lug nuts and longer bolts until you trim to clear the exhaust at the bushings on stock! Gives you control of frame steer with-out so much as a roll by twisting the frame either way to rear steer instantly! 6 or ten left caster and at-least 12 right caster, with both upper ball joints behind the lowers! My left does more work than the right until rolled and nosed! Lt ft spring is weaker but is preloaded 100-200 more lbs. leaving the stronger rt. ft. free and able to nose on the stronger spring to hold the cross weight and left rear going in and off the corner! The stronger right sets it back left to stop steering to get off straight or to drive under those who can't! Shocks of 5-5 left ft and 3-3 right! Use either 3-3s or 4-4s straight across for each wheel to react to make my set-up work properly! It will nose on a three first on the rt ft. and hike the left rear to start the rear steering process instantly just by lifting and turning left a little bit! It loads the right side through the cross and frame twist even before it rolls to plant the whole right side as not to slide going in hotter, while holding left rear through the cross also to drag the car left as roll out is as little, there is less to fight side to side down the straights giving faster corner and straightaway speeds with less bind in both places! A 1/2 to 3/4 roll out works great and no hot right rear tire to change set-up! 2 pounds change and less everywhere else! More traction, turn father right or steer in any direction any time on a dime! No more traffic problems on or off the throttle! Its been winning for us for years tacky or wet! No changing things at the track for me!

Bump steer and Ackerman if-( darty )is messing with the toe out unless on three wheels! When changing stock location and lengths of upper A arms or messing around with spindles of different lengths, heights, drops and inclinations and other factors related to the ills can be tremendous! One tie rod angle, steering knuckle, pitman off centered or angle change with a ride height adjustment can be most tricky as even a j-bar adjustment lifting the left rear higher changing every setting on the front end when hiking one up! Set-ups vary and this is all part of each package to make them work but with excessive movement comes more work! I prefer to sit back and watch them win old school and not have 20 more things to deal with and concentrate on what's for supper with more free time at home, in either shop and at the track! I stopped playing with this problem 35 years ago! Most problems with different set-ups have circled like buzzards every seven years sense! It would seem that we have just caught a cool breeze to the front! Dirt cars are most complex and getting any right for one race or track requires all the tricks of change if not correct in the shop to start with! Work all week on a set-up, I prefer horse time to tinker with but I am no driver! They won't change a thing but I do have to explain why they shouldn't when winning most all the time! I just look at it and say, that is close enough and they believe me after 35 years! We still have air pressure talks about using different gauges! 4 pounds different on who's gauge you barrowed! My wife can see a low tire on her car! More caster is my life long friend on my set-up, old school or is this new school for you younger guys? Enjoying what you are doing and the quest for perfection in a variable world of Dirt!